UnBolted LIVE with Emelie Braxton, engaged patriot and homesteader

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:20] Speaker B: Well, happy Tuesday, everybody. I'm MJ Bull. I'm your host of Unbolted. And today we have with us Emily Braxton, who is a friend, a homesteader, and an engaged patriot that's got a pretty amazing story. So I'm really excited to bring her story to you today. Emily, welcome. Thanks for being here today. [00:00:39] Speaker A: Yeah, thanks for having me. [00:00:41] Speaker B: Yeah. So I've gotten to know Emily for a few years when she ran for office. She ran for school board a few years ago and kind of have followed her story and so just found out about other parts of her story that I thought the world needed to hear. And so anyway, we. Let's get into it, Emily. So tell everybody. I love for people to kind of know how did you get to where you are? You. You do a lot of things. And so there's going to be. It's going to be, you know, full. But yeah, tell everybody about how you got to where you are now. [00:01:18] Speaker A: It pretty much started at birth. I've kind of been a person that has asked questions and may have gotten into some trouble with that, but I'm also not afraid to ask questions. In school, I was that annoying kid who like, asked questions and everyone would want to go on to another topic, but I just had questions. And that. That really is my life in a nutshell. I have always been a person that is interested in knowledge and science and, and just wants to know all the things. I'm very curious and like to get involved. It's funny because there's a large side of me that is quite an introvert and I'm not a hugger. And, you know, I like my private space and my solitude and my. What's the bat cave called? Or maybe it's Superman, the something of solitude. Or I don't know, I can't remember. But. But I also like to be engaged. I like to communicate with people. I like to hear about themselves and I like to find things out and learn things new. And so I ran for East Valley school board in 2021. And at that time, obviously, we were living in East Valley and. [00:02:48] Speaker B: Which is in Spokane Valley. [00:02:50] Speaker A: Washington Valley. Yeah. Yep. And. And we were living within walking distance of an elementary school, a middle school and a high school. And our kids were going to private school. So I wondered why we were doing that. Why was I driving all the way across town to a private school. School when I could walk, literally, our children to school and save that money in gas and, you know, tuition was expensive and things like that. And so it really brought into perspective education. And so I started to go down the rabbit hole of curriculums and seeing, you know, what, what public schools were about. And there were some things that I didn't really agree on. And, and so the first thing is faith. They've, you know, our Catholic faith is a big part of our family. The I have five children and the kids and I all became Catholic in 2019. [00:03:57] Speaker B: Okay. [00:03:58] Speaker A: So we're, it's called a convert. I was baptized Lutheran. And, and so, so that had me looking at curriculums, looking at the schools that were near us and they just weren't good enough. And I think education is really, really important and spending time with your family is a really, really important too. And so I decided to run for school board to see if I could make a difference in my local community. And it was the first kind of major office. You know, I think in elementary school I ran for treasurer or something. And in Girl Scouts, you know, I was, you know, something. But you didn't have, you know, lots of an election and everything. And so I was running against the incumbent and then there was one other lady who was also running. And I learned very quickly that I don't like public speaking. I mean, if I'm prepared, I can read a speech or do a reading or whatever, that's fine, but kind of off the cuff. I'm a thinker person and kind of a logical thinker person. And so I like to be prepared. I'm not one that can think of a question super quickly. And so I basically, my whole campaign was running defense and I looked up the incumbents previous voting record and decided that everybody needed to know how he was voting because maybe if you did, you might not want to vote for him. So that's pretty much all I did. I didn't win the summer election, but that's all right. I think I was like 222 votes away August primary. [00:06:00] Speaker B: So. Yeah, so you had more than two people in the race then. [00:06:04] Speaker A: Yep, exactly. There were three of us. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's all right. I learned a lot. And when it came time for the November election, I wrote my name in. So, you know, that's all right. But I learned a lot about the process. I learned a lot about what school boards do and how much they affect curriculum and everyday goings on with your child at public school, with the teachers and hiring and firing and staff, sort of, you know, situations like that and the superintendent and that relationship. And so 2021, right. That was like right in the thick of COVID And so it was a wild time to sort of be involved with school politics. And I got to know other people that were running in other districts, like in Central Valley, Spokane, Spokane Valley. There's three different districts in Spokane Valley and other places also in North Spokane and the Mead school district. And I met some people, Tiffany Smiley, I think that's her last name. I think it's Tiffany. [00:07:22] Speaker B: Okay. [00:07:23] Speaker A: And some other people that were part of just Washington state politics to network and, you know, see what their words of wisdom were and ask questions and advice and doorbelling and, you know, and do I make like knockers and you know, this or that and, and how to do a campaign. And so that was pretty enlightening. And then what led us. Sure. [00:07:50] Speaker B: Hold on real quick. I'm kind of curious. Did Covid kind of launch you more into that, do you think? [00:07:57] Speaker A: Yeah, oh yeah. It definitely got me more involved in politics. I'd always been a voter, but not necessarily a super informed in voter. And I didn't really get like, more like heavily involved in politics until the 2016 presidential election. That was a really big election for our country and it was also a really big election for our family personally. And it divided our family quite a bit. And so that led. That kind of started that major election. Kind of started my. [00:08:45] Speaker B: Yeah, politicking or like your internal family, like your husband and yourself. [00:08:52] Speaker A: That was. Yeah, no, my husband and I have been most things. We're, we're pretty, pretty aligned. He, he's a little bit more independent on some things and but the great thing about it is we can have conversations and he's very intelligent and very smart and you know, we can just talk about stuff and get difference of opinions and there's no hard feelings and it's just sharing information and sharing your opinion like normal adults discussion without people. [00:09:33] Speaker B: You know, going off the rails because you might disagree. Right? [00:09:38] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I welcome healthy discussion like that. I think that's kind of missing in this day and age and bring it back. [00:09:50] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. So were you always a Republican voter, Emily? [00:09:55] Speaker A: No, not always. There was during the Obama elections. I got a little sucked into the, oh, you're a white person, you better vote for Obama or you're racist if you don't. And there, there was a, A, a difficult part of my history in my 20s and 30s and more colorful than it is now, and that's. But so there was kind of, I was not as confident and not as strong willed as I am today. And so I made a, you know, listened to some other people a little bit more and gleamed on to some other things and people that I was around that maybe didn't share my beliefs. I also didn't have a very strong faith at that time. And when you're kind of floating in that nebulous of, you know, pop culture, you know, whatever, you sort of try to gleam onto something. And I didn't necessarily gleam onto healthy, productive citizens of the world, but. Yeah, but since, you know, 2016, that I could definitely identify more with more conservative values. I'm Catholic, so we're definitely pro life and you know, things like that. [00:11:26] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So you got more involved, more active, more paying attention in 2016 or during, you know, during that presidential election. That kind of launched you to be more in tune, engaged. [00:11:40] Speaker A: Yeah. And also helps with having children too. We had children a little bit later than life. So our first daughter was born in 2013 and I was 33. So do the math. Yes. I'm 45 and that also helps having a child kind of open your eyes to world issues and local issues and you know, you're bringing this brand new life into the world and to care and nurture and protect, you know, will, what are the things I need to protect? This little, you know, bundle of crying and you just start questioning things and researching things. And I don't have a super, like significant educational background. I did some public school, I did some homeschooling, I did college, flunked out of a college, did a little bit of community college. So I do have AAS degree, glorified, you know, two year degree. But it hasn't really stopped me in life. I didn't need a higher level education to do the things that were important to me. And my degree, my AAS degree, I got in from Spokane Falls Community College led me to health care. And so I was in medical billing before I had children and before I met my husband. And then I worked at Sacred Heart for seven years until our first daughter was about one. And then I became a stay at home mom. [00:13:27] Speaker B: Okay. Wow, that's interesting that you have that medical experience in your background as well. We're going to continue on your story. So yeah, high up. [00:13:38] Speaker A: So I started in payer contracting at Sacred Heart. I guess I already said that. And moved to different other departments and got to know corporate healthc care very well and also got to know the Washington State Nursing association, the wsna, that relationship with the, the department that I was working in very well because I had to help set up contract negotiation meetings and just the dynamic of, you know, unions. Yeah. [00:14:15] Speaker B: So kind of more hr. [00:14:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I was an executive administrative assistant. [00:14:21] Speaker B: Okay. Okay, Very interesting. So you started having kids. Yeah, kind of, you know, look at things and. Yeah, carry on, because I know you. You have a couple. Couple of children. [00:14:33] Speaker A: Yes. Yes. So our first daughter was born in 2013, and I worked part time for that first year, and then it just really hurt my soul to be away from her. It was a, you know, just. It wasn't what I was meant to be. And then we had our second daughter in 2015. We had a third daughter in 2017, a fourth daughter in 2019, and then our son was born in 2022. [00:15:07] Speaker B: Okay. Unless you. You got a son. [00:15:10] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. The girls are all two years apart, and then. Yeah, our son was two and a half years apart because their. Their birthdays are all in the fall, so it's kind of funny. God's funny. [00:15:24] Speaker B: So five kids total? [00:15:26] Speaker A: Yes, four girls, and our youngest is a boy. [00:15:29] Speaker B: Okay. Wow. Oh, my gosh. So, yeah. Talk about kind of, you know, through that time, like, what were you seeing? What were you doing, you know, again, that led you, you know, took you to Covid, then took you to running for office. I mean, was there anything else that. I know it's very busy when you're at home with your kids and especially when you have four or five of them. Anything else that happened in there that you think was instrumental and. [00:15:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:56] Speaker B: Where you are today? [00:15:57] Speaker A: Yeah, the. One of the major things was when we were still living in East Valley and I went to the grocery store and we were told how many eggs we could buy at that time, and they were really rationing eggs. And really, I needed. Yeah, I needed this more. So this was like two, man. 2022 maybe, or 2023. So we've lived where we are for three years, and I got this. This lady got really mad at me because I wanted, like, five dozen eggs, and we were only allowed two, and. But I needed more for my large family, and she got really upset that I had such a large family, and it was an awkward conversation in front of the eggs. [00:16:50] Speaker B: Like, more recently, like when Joe Biden was president and the egg crisis went crazy. Okay, okay, that makes more sense now. I was thinking it was before you. [00:16:59] Speaker A: Could only buy two dozen eggs at a time, and I needed five. And so I literally, like, you know, went home and ordered chicks off the Internet because we needed chickens. [00:17:11] Speaker B: Then I was gonna say, and hence, yeah, the homesteading. [00:17:15] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. So that is what started the homesteading. We had our chickens in our backyard and yeah, we had too many than we were supposed to and then we three of them turned into roosters. So we got some interesting mail from the neighbors because they were crowing. But we also had decided that we were going to get out of the city and try to find some land and be more food security. So with all of the COVID nonsense and the chain, what's the word I'm trying to think of? [00:18:01] Speaker B: COVID or. [00:18:02] Speaker A: Yeah, like the. You couldn't get things in the store. Everything was supply chain. Yeah, that's the word. Yeah. And so there were lots of supply chain issues. You know, everyone was, you know, going crazy over toilet paper and water and you know, things like that. It really brought to front. Oh, if something, you know, significant. I mean, Covid was significant. Yes. But if there was something like, you know, a bomb or, you know, something like that, would I be able to feed my family and would I be able to feed my family if I was solely reliant on the grocery store like everybody else? Right. And so we decided that we were going to try to be more self sufficient and also raise the animals and the fruits and vegetables that we eat. Because that also led. When you start talking. Well, at least me personally, this is how it went when I started researching raising animals and how they are raised in, you know, big agriculture. And then you go down that of big farming, big ag, you know, this or that, you decide that, well, maybe I could raise this chicken in a healthier way. Even just doing the research of the nutrition in eggs. And then you see, oh, there are farm fresh eggs and there are cage free eggs and free range eggs and organic eggs, you know, and, and all these eggs. And what's the difference between this, you know, very cheaper egg where you get a dozen for like $2 and then this, you know, hoity toity all organic egg for like $6. Like what am I missing out? Could I grow that egg on our homestead at a cheaper, you know, more, a cheaper way and provide a higher nutrition for our family? [00:20:14] Speaker B: Well, and they look very, very different when you crack them, don't they? I mean there is. You have not had it farm fresh, cage free egg. [00:20:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:25] Speaker B: Let me tell you, you need to go. It's like tomatoes. It's like buying it, growing your own tomato and buying a tomato in the grocery store. They're not even close to the same thing. [00:20:34] Speaker A: Yep, yep, exactly. So we took our 26 illegal city chickens. We weren't in an HOA. So that's good. [00:20:43] Speaker B: You weren't in a what? [00:20:45] Speaker A: An HOA. [00:20:46] Speaker B: Oh, HOA. But they deemed your chickens to be illegal. [00:20:51] Speaker A: Well, so we had a few more than we were supposed to. I think we were supposed to only have nine, and we had 26. Is that a city. [00:21:00] Speaker B: What is that. [00:21:01] Speaker A: Is that a. Yeah, that's a city ordinance between the Spokane Valley. Yeah, it's like that in. Yeah. In the Spokane city, too, you are allowed a certain amount of chickens with the square footage, and it's very heavy regulated because you can't have any roosters the size, the height of the fence, and how close it is to any outbuildings. And, you know, there. There's quite a few regulations around some city chickens. [00:21:34] Speaker B: Wow. Good to know. [00:21:35] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, good to know. [00:21:37] Speaker B: But you. And. And so were you in the city of Spokane Valley? [00:21:41] Speaker A: Yes. [00:21:41] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. All right. Okay. So. So you kind of. All of that kind of led to you basically going, okay, we need to. We need to venture out a little bit more. [00:21:53] Speaker A: Yeah. I, you know, had grew up on the Little House on the Prairie books, and I was gonna channel my Ma Ingles and head out to the country. [00:22:04] Speaker B: Emily, was that like. Did you grow up that way? [00:22:07] Speaker A: No, I am. I'd say so. My parents lived in town, my grandparents lived in town, but my great grandma had a farm who I'm actually named after in Eitzen, Minnesota. And so it's like I'm the, you know, what is that? Fourth generation or third generation farmer, but it skipped a couple generations. And I remember growing up visiting our small town in. In Minnesota and seeing the farm and things like that. And I've always had a love of animals. I horseback ride when I was younger and things like that, but have no, you know, no farming or, you know, driving truck or 4H experience. You know, things that. I like country western music, so that, you know, that doesn't count. That was. That was the most of your history with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:23:13] Speaker B: Embrace this idea that you wanted to move out and. And your husband as well, and. [00:23:19] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. My husband is a software engineer and he works from home. So as long as we could get, you know. Thank you, Elon Musk with his, you know, satellites, we could have, you know, go anywhere that there was a strong Internet connection. [00:23:35] Speaker B: Wow. [00:23:36] Speaker A: So that led us to about 20 miles west of Spokane, out in the West Plains. [00:23:43] Speaker B: Okay. Kind of out back by Cheney. Ish. [00:23:46] Speaker A: Yeah. West of Genie. Yeah. [00:23:48] Speaker B: And so when was that? That you moved out there? [00:23:51] Speaker A: So this was our. So this Summer was our third summer. [00:23:57] Speaker B: Okay. So 2022. Is that right, yeah. [00:24:00] Speaker A: Yeah. Yep. Shortly after our son was born. [00:24:05] Speaker B: Okay. Oh, okay. Interesting. And so tell me, how goes it? So I. I kind of know a little bit. I. I keep up with you just a little bit, but I don't really know the extent of it. So tell us how many animals you have and what kinds and. [00:24:21] Speaker A: Sure. Yeah. So we have about 20 acres, and most of it is wooded and pine trees and things like that. And it's very rocky in some areas. We have quite a lot of basalt. And I'd like to consider myself a farming nerd. And I'm really into regenerative farming and, you know, taking care of the earth that God gave us and that, you know, being responsible people and no chemicals and no, you know, no sprays, you know, no everything is organic and, you know, the way God intended. No, you know, and so we came with our 26 chickens, and then that has expanded quite a bit. Now we have. Oh, wow. I'd say we probably have like 200 chickens. [00:25:21] Speaker B: Wow. [00:25:22] Speaker A: And then we have geese and we have ducks and guinea fowls and turkeys and rabbits, pigs and goats. [00:25:33] Speaker B: Rabbits, pigs and goats. My goodness. Okay. That is a farm. So did you have hope along the way? Like, did you make friends with some people that kind of help mentor or guide you? Or was this all purely you doing research and trial? [00:25:51] Speaker A: Nope, this is trial and error. And I am a member of YouTube University. And, you know, thank God for YouTube. There are some. Every summer, Coeur d' Alene does a homesteading conference. That is amazing. And so then I learned names like Joel Salatin, which you might recognize that one. There's also the homesteading family, which is in northern Idaho, so they're kind of close to this area, and they have an incredible wealth of knowledge on their website. They have classes that you can take. And I just started watching videos and reading articles. And the first summer that we were here, I signed up for a chicken processing class from a local farm that was kind of outside of, I guess, kind of medical Lakeish area, and went to this class out in the middle of nowhere and watching process a chicken was like, oh, cool, okay, I can do that. So now we need to raise meat chickens because. [00:27:00] Speaker B: So do you want to go just explain a little bit to people what processing chickens actually means? [00:27:05] Speaker A: Sure. Yeah. So there's many different ways that you can dispense batch the chicken. And there. I'm sure there are so many farming phrases like running around like a chicken with his head cut off. There. There are people that have been disturbed by you know, seeing. Because once you chop ahead off a chicken it does continue to run around because it's you know, nerves and then nerves are still firing even without a brain. It's kind of, of fascinating but we don't do that. We, when we dispatch a chicken we use, it's called a killing cone. So you, it's like a, a cone shape and you stick it upside down and then its head comes out and basically sharp knife and cut its throat. [00:27:59] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:28:00] Speaker A: I'm allowed to say that on that it's all good. [00:28:03] Speaker B: I believe in real and raw and you know, let's, let's just be truthful here. So I would be surprised by that. [00:28:11] Speaker A: Yeah. So. And then after a couple minutes then you put it in a scalder which is a large pot of hot water. I think it has to be a hundred and forty ish degrees. I think it's somewhere around there. I could, don't quote me on that, that's my husband's job. And you put them in a scalder because that loosens the feathers up. The feathers are in, they, they're in the skin. Right. And when you heat it up the pore expands. And so after it goes into the scalder then it goes into a plucker and we have this machine, it's like a drum and on the inside are these nipple finger looking things and it spins around in a circle and gets all the feathers off. Most of them. Yeah. And so and the kids, they all help from every, every aspect of this. Our five children are right in there helping. And, and then it goes into a, from the plucker it goes into a cooler and then the cooler it goes on the evisceration table. So we have to take out the innards. We cut the feet off and the neck and then scoop out all the cavity of the internal organs. We save the hearts and livers a lot of our customers and we personally eat a lot of animal organs. They're very good for you. [00:29:44] Speaker B: Right. [00:29:45] Speaker A: And, and then it gets into back to the cooler and then we put it in a shrink wrap bag and it looks just like you got it from a grocery store. [00:29:58] Speaker B: Wow. So how does it taste? [00:30:00] Speaker A: It's phenomenal. We've. And there's a couple different breeds of chickens. It's very common to do a Cornish cross which is a very fast raising chicken, meaning that from birth to cooler or freezer it's about nine weeks. And then there's a broiler chicken. Most of your. [00:30:27] Speaker B: Is that. Yeah, one quite a bit Smaller than kind of like a Cornish hen? [00:30:30] Speaker A: No, because they're. I call them a mutant. They grow very fast, and they're very ugly, and they don't have very many feathers. And so they are. You know, the productivity you think about, you know, big, big food out there. It's very common. Your rotisserie chicken at Costco is a Cornish cross. In fact, Costco has its own farms for their chickens. [00:31:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:02] Speaker A: And so we, like, the red, like a broiler is a slower breed of meat chicken. They takes about 12 weeks instead of the eight or nine weeks, but they've got, to me, a nice layer of fat. And when you roast it or bake it or fry it, it's got that crispy. It's just delicious. And the process for dispatching a chicken, a goose, a duck, or a turkey is pretty much the same thing. [00:31:36] Speaker B: Okay, okay. Fascinating. I'm learning, and I'm so interested in it. And you talk a little bit about what's going on at Costco. You know, I think that's interesting for people to understand, too. Like you said, look into that. There's been some recent videos about what they do with their chicken, you know, after processing, like, what. What happens to it and whether or not that's true or not, I don't know. Some people, I shared a video, and some people said, you know, that's not true. I raise chickens, and that's not what happens. But I think those are things that we've got to question is what is happening to these, you know, before it gets to our table, what all is happening. And, you know, big food, if you will, compared to, like, what you're talking about, which seems, you know, very natural and very wholesome. You're not injecting anything into your chickens before you freeze them or, you know, it sounds like there's there. It's a very natural process. [00:32:37] Speaker A: Yeah. There's a really good movie called Food Inc. That I highly recommend people to watch. Might make you a little sick to your stomach, but it's a really good movie. And if you think about a chicken on our farm, we get that chick for specifically talking about meat birds, a meat chicken. We get that chick in the mail from a hatchery. And that animal, from the moment it steps into our farm, is treated with the utmost respect. You know, we are thanking God for this animal. My children have named them. Some people get after me. They're like, how can you eat anything that you name? But it's a sacred life, you know, it's a gift of. From God. And I'm going to treat it with respect and so are our children. And I think raising children to have a respect for life of all species is really important. And they help take care of the chicks, they help take care of them if they get an injury. And I've researched lots of natural ways to take care of chickens through diet and supplements and herbs and apple cider vinegar in their water and you know, things like that. And my children are just right there, you know, watching everything and absorbing that and learning that. And it's funny, this was our third summer on the farm, but it took just a couple of weeks for them to be feral farm kids. And they're running around without shoes and our three year old son is pretty much naked all the time. Sorry to the UPS guy. He's just run around like Lord of the Flies. [00:34:24] Speaker B: Well, it's got to be quite a process too. I mean if you've got 200 chickens and, and you've got, I mean there's a lot of things that have to be done on a daily basis. What does a typical day look like for you in your family, Emily? [00:34:37] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I'm an early riser, I've always been an early riser and I don't need an alarm. Pretty much between four and five I am up, ready to go. And then we do chores. And so our, our life kind of revolves around when the sun gets up. The sun hasn't really been coming up until closer to six as we head into fall. And so we'll go out, the kids and I will do chores. My husband's job has east coast hours, so he starts work at between about 6, 6:30 in the morning and we do chores and then we come in and have breakfast and then we start homeschool and then we'll have Hobbit breakfast at about 10 o'. Clock. And breakfast. Yeah, if you've ever read the Hobbit books they talk about like second breakfast and so we call it Hobbit breakfast. [00:35:40] Speaker B: That's funny. [00:35:42] Speaker A: And then do a little bit more schooling. We'll have lunch and then pretty much be done for the day. In the afternoon we've got deliveries for our customers who get our eggs and things and farm chores and dinner and then chores at night. So we're probably on average outside, golly, anywhere from four to eight hours a day we're outside taking care of our animals. [00:36:12] Speaker B: Wow, that's awesome. And not. Not. You mean not in front of screens all day? [00:36:16] Speaker A: No, our children don't have screens. We have a tv, but it's not even plugged in and it's upstairs in our bedroom that we don't, it's not in the main living space. We don't watch it very often. [00:36:27] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of information coming out about how good sunlight truly is for us. We've been lied to about that as well. [00:36:35] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't wear sunscreen either. And I am a Norwegian, German, Irish descent. [00:36:43] Speaker B: You and I are both pretty fair skinned and I've, I've done the same thing. I've stopped wearing sunglasses. I haven't worn sunglasses a couple of years. [00:36:51] Speaker A: And yeah, look at my tan. I mean, you probably can't see it, but. Yeah. [00:36:56] Speaker B: And I. No sunscreen and I go out on the lake and I don't burn. It's crazy, you know? Yeah, yeah. [00:37:04] Speaker A: Go down that rabbit hole to see how your gut health is affected by your sun, tan and sunburn. [00:37:12] Speaker B: Yeah. And I want to get into that because I know that's a big part of your story. I was thinking about something else, but I'll think of it. But yeah, what it, what a great thing though, that your kids are out there in nature and learning, you know, about life, learning about, you know, nature. There's a lot of things that parallel. Right. And yeah. And it's very connected and I know your faith is a huge part of that as well. What, just a great learning opportunity. How, what do they think about it? [00:37:42] Speaker A: They love it. You know, I've, I've, I've prayed and thought about, you know, what else? If the kids didn't like it and you know, would we still do it? And I think that we would to a certain level may, maybe more of a level that I could obtain because I love animals and I am in my happy space in the goat pasture, you know, scratching the goats all. Or giving the pigs belly rubs. And we're the kind of people that our animals are immersed in love. Like when we have new people over and they see the kids hop over the electric fence to get in the pig area, they're like, oh my gosh, your pigs are gonna eat your kids. And I'm like, yeah, that could happen. Pigs are big. And they, you know, it's why serial killers have pigs. Right. So, yeah, I totally get that. They're, they're, they're dangerous and big and. But if you saw our pigs, the second the kids go in there and I go in there and they don't go in there without adult supervision, but the pigs just roll over, they come over to you snort you with their big old noses and they flop over expecting a belly rub. So they're very spoiled, I bet. [00:39:05] Speaker B: Oh, that's awesome. I love the picture of it. Do you. So you don't have cows and you don't have. Okay. And then curious if you're thinking about cows. [00:39:16] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So part of our regenerative farming is building up the soil and building up the land and the biodiversity of the soil and, and where we're at, we don't have a lot because we have lots of trees. So we don't have the pasture land. So it requires forest management. And we learned a lot about that because the first summer that we lived there, the gray fire out in Medical Lake happened and it got two miles from our house. So that was a very eye opening experience of learning forest management and, you know, ground cover and the feet of pine needles that are, you know, underneath everything, especially acres of it. [00:40:03] Speaker B: Right? [00:40:04] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Mostly wooded. Yeah, yep. And so then, so we're learning how to. We also have a wood stove, so we need the trees to be able to provide heat and during the cold seasons. And so learning about that, of course, from YouTube University, also your local fire district, they are happy to come out to your property and it doesn't even cost anything and they'll just tell you about fire safety things. And so that, that's a huge blessing to us too. And, and so we, yeah, dairy cow is definitely on the horizon. And of course I need my gelding pranc me as a horse lover. But we've got to build up the biodiversity of our soil. And we also don't have a tractor and we don't have a side by side. We have hand trucks and small children and I'm strong like an ox and you know, we got a couple wagons and we get things done. But what we do have is we have five bulldozers that are called pigs and there's a couple. We have two different kind of breeds of pigs and they have a different ability or specialty. So our Cooney Cooney, his name is Dexter, he's very cute. He's a good rooting pig. And I mean all pigs root to a certain degree. But then we also have some Idaho pasture pigs, which are pasture pigs. Right. And so our future farm outlook is rotating our chickens around with our pigs, with our goats. We need a ruminant which is a goat or a cow, something like that to help build up the biodiversity in our soil. And all those different animals, they add a different element to our farm and, and a different Resource if they, you know, can provide milk or meat or building up the soil. And so we're just learning that as we go. That's. So we haven't had a cow yet because we don't have enough pasture land for that. [00:42:26] Speaker B: Right. Are your goats, do you do dairy with your goats at all? [00:42:31] Speaker A: Yeah, we will. So we have two Nubians that are females, and goats have an in heat season from about August to January, December. We're brand new to goats. We just got them this summer, and so hopefully we'll find them a boyfriend and then we'll have babies and milk in the spring. And then we have two Nigerian dwarfs. Mozzarella is his name. He's a buckling. And then his future girlfriend is Brie. But they're both babies. They were born in the spring, so they're like six months old and how big? Yeah, they're. They're little. [00:43:19] Speaker B: They're like the miniature little goats. [00:43:21] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we have two more, Pepper Jack and Colby. So Pepper Jack and Colby are mini Nubians, and they are. When you cross a Nubian with a Nigerian dwarf, you get a mini Nubian. So they're like a medium sized goat. Nubian is like a big sized goat. [00:43:44] Speaker B: Wow. [00:43:45] Speaker A: And yeah, so we have one is a weather. Colby is a weather, which is a castrated male goat. And then Pepper Jack is another buckling. So hopefully they'll be big enough next season to breed with. Cheddar and cheese are the names of our Nubian goats. [00:44:04] Speaker B: That's so cute. I. So about 20 years ago. Let's see. Is that right? No, it's probably been more than that. 23 years ago, when my son was diagnosed with autism, I started researching, you know, everything, Right. And we actually started helping, helping Farmer George out in Airway Heights to milk his cows. And I found out about raw milk. And I could actually drink raw milk, which I've been dairy intolerant, lactose intolerant almost my whole life. I could drink, you know, more of it than I could drink the regular. And I found out how good it was for you. And so he talked a lot about the soil and replenishing the soil. We did that for, oh, gosh, almost a year. We'd go out. The kids and I went out, you know, on. It was either Saturdays or Saturday, Sunday at 5 o' clock in the morning, and we, we, you know, did that. And it just, it was awesome. You know, it was awesome to work with the cows and. And he always named his dairy cows, but not his other cows. They Were called moths. And I said, mott. He goes, yeah, meat on the table. Mott 1. We don't name, like you said, we don't name our, our, you know, cows that are going to be processed. [00:45:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:20] Speaker B: But, you know, it just was fascinating to me how good that was for us. And we would make kefir and cheese and then we couldn't there some. He had some bad health and things turned. So then we got, we went up to apple and got goat milk for a while. [00:45:38] Speaker A: Oh yeah. [00:45:39] Speaker B: And raw goat milk. And it was great. I mean, it's so good for you. And definitely people need to dive into that research too about, you know, raw milk. And they've just done so much to scare you off of, you know, these things. And it's just, it's not the whole truth. And, and part of it, like Emily said, is about their practices. Right. Like how you treat your animals and what kind of, you know, sanitary practices you have. So. Yeah, very exciting, Emily. It's going to be fun to, to see how this continues to evolve. We had a good comment from Janet says, love all the names of your animals. [00:46:22] Speaker A: Sorry, my, my, of course my battery is gonna like stop on my. I'm gonna unplug something here. [00:46:29] Speaker B: Okay. Yep. Get her figured out. We want to keep going because we've got to talk about your son, but I think that's what's going on. So interesting is, you know, sometimes things happen and it makes you dive in and, and like you said, question, you know, question things go why, you know, and how did this happen? What is our food? You know, how are they making our food? What's in our food? [00:46:53] Speaker A: Yeah, like, who would have thought that we would have had to question things? Yeah. Working now we'll blame my father in law. No. [00:47:04] Speaker B: Yeah, you definitely want to have some more battery or we could do a part two too, but hopefully figured out. [00:47:09] Speaker A: I think it's charging. [00:47:10] Speaker B: Okay, good deal. [00:47:13] Speaker A: Sorry about that. [00:47:14] Speaker B: A little bit of. Because I think this, this dives into, you know, health, obviously, and the health of your, your family. What? Yeah, let's talk a little bit about what happened with your son. I'm gonna share this one comment real quick. We've got Vivian that said, just make sure you, you see this Emily. Emily is a joy to listen to. She gives me a lot of hope. [00:47:42] Speaker A: Thank you. That's sweet. [00:47:46] Speaker B: These are some of my people from X, I think, and then Janet's from Facebook. So. All right, so let's talk about your son. Let's talk about what happened. [00:47:56] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. [00:47:57] Speaker B: So. [00:47:57] Speaker A: So Quintus is our son, and he is three. And when he was. Let's see here, my timeline here I'm seeing. Oh, there we go. Okay. Sorry, I. Okay. [00:48:17] Speaker B: It's real and raw. I bring it to you. [00:48:21] Speaker A: All right, so In September of 2023, Quintus was 16 months old, and he all of a sudden stopped walking. And he hadn't. He had kind of just started walking that summer, and then he stopped, and he would cry, and he wouldn't want shoes to be put on, and he just wanted to be carried, like, all the time. So at first I thought maybe it was, I don't know, just a behavioral thing. Maybe, you know, he was teething. Excuse me? Teething. Or, you know, having. He had a really big growth spurt, so maybe he, you know, was having growing pains. And it's funny, if you go down the rabbit hole of growing pains, there's a lot of doctors out there that think growing pains really isn't a thing. But then if you talk to people who had growing pains, they're like, that's like, a thing. So. So that was kind of the first thing that happened. And he also got in all of his teeth all at once. And if you're a mom and have had anybody go through teething, teething does an amazing. Maybe amazing isn't quite the word, but it does some really weird symptoms. Like, you can get a rash, you can have behavioral issues, like, you can have food sensitivities. All of a sudden, you know, GI tract issues, sleep regression. Like, teething just does some really weird things. And so between a growth spurt and teething, we kind of thought he was just, you know, growing. And then we took him to our pediatrician, who recommended getting a X ray. I noticed that his ankles looked swollen, which is why he didn't want to wear shoes. And. And so we got his X rays done. And that was in November of 2023. And the radiologist, after seeing his X rays, said that he had rheumatoid arthritis. And that is an interesting thing that a radiologist would be able to diagnose that from an X ray. They can't really, if you do the research on that. So, you know, question that. That's a good thing to question. And then it took quite a few months for us to be able to see a pediatric rheumatologist here in Spokane and this side of the state. I'm pretty sure there's only one in our area. And so she's really, really busy, so we had to Wait quite. Quite a. Quite a long time. So that was from November 2023 to July 2024 is when we saw the pediatric rheumatologist in Spokane, and that's when we got the diagnosis of juvenile idiopathic arthritis, also known as jia. And. And she came to that conclusion after a whole bunch of lab work drawn and his inflammation markers and a rash and there was, you know, a flowchart of symptoms that he had. And so then the recommendation was first to get Kenalog injections at Shriners. [00:52:29] Speaker B: What kind of injections? [00:52:31] Speaker A: Kenalog. And so that's a. A form of a steroid. And to get that right into his joints. Kind of like if you think of it as a fire, you know, you want to try to suppress the fire before it spreads. Right. So he had such a big amount of inflammation. Let's just, you know, get it under control as quickly as we can. [00:52:59] Speaker B: So, Emily, this seems like. I mean, rheumatoid arthritis is an arthritis. I mean, you think of that for older people, is this becoming a new thing for. [00:53:09] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. According to my research, if you research arthritis and inflammation and then you can tie in ultra processed food foods and how our flour is made and things like that. Inflammation is a huge thing among children and adults. [00:53:34] Speaker B: Wow. I had no idea that that was even a thing for children, that they could have a rheumatoid arthritis or. An arthritis. [00:53:42] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So he had the Kenalog injections in both ankles, in one knee and in both wrists the summer of 2024 and all over. [00:53:58] Speaker B: Or was it mostly in his. [00:54:00] Speaker A: Mostly in his joints, and it was mostly his ankles that hurt? He never said that his knee hurt or anything like that. And in fact, he wouldn't say that his ankle would hurt. He would say, my toe hurts. But I think that was just trying to teach him at such a young age that this is, you know, the difference between an ankle and a toe and, like, your foot and, you know, the joint and. And things. And that was a pretty traumatic experience in itself because we are already a kind of natural pathic family. And so when. When Quintus was born, you know, we did everything very. As natural as we possibly could. So he didn't get the hep B vaccine. He didn't get the vitamin K shot. He had an oral vitamins that I brought in, and he didn't get the erythromycin, the goop on the eyes. And. And so we're very natural people, herbal. You know, did you do any of. [00:55:12] Speaker B: The other childhood Vaccinations on the schedule, Emily? [00:55:15] Speaker A: No. Nope, none of them. [00:55:17] Speaker B: So. None of them. [00:55:18] Speaker A: None of them. And so him going into Shriners to get the Kenalog injections would be his first time of some hardcore medicine. [00:55:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:29] Speaker A: And he doesn't. We don't even give our children ibuprofen or, you know, anything like that. And so, so that was a big deal. That was a concern of mine of how he was going to react to that. And, you know, Shriners was amazing. They are an amazing system here in, in the Spokane area. It's. It's a blessing to have that facility in. In our community. You know, I'm not completely anti, you know, medicine. [00:56:04] Speaker B: Modern medicine. [00:56:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Western medicine. And they. We got treated with good time, respect, and everybody in there was really caring. And so the only tricky part was the, The. The doctor was running late, and so the medicine to make quintus sleepy had wore off. And so he was like, screaming, and I had to pull him out of my arms. You know, that was a. Traumatic for the old mom heart. But other than that, you know, they. They were really bees. Knees to Shriners. [00:56:42] Speaker B: How often did he have these injections? [00:56:44] Speaker A: He only had them once. [00:56:45] Speaker B: Okay. [00:56:46] Speaker A: And we only did them once to see how he was going to react. You know, they're. They're. The doctors can't tell you, oh, he will be fine for six months or six weeks or six days or six hours, like, you know, whatever. And when we got home from that, and after the anesthesia wore off, he ran. He ran that day, like, down the hallway in this little kind of wonky gate of the. We called it the quinny gate because his mobility was not as developed because he had stopped walking for so long. And we called it the Quinny shuffle. And. And he did this, like, Quinny shuffle. And it was like, oh, wow. He went from, like, me carrying you, not really walking to all of a sudden he, like, you know, quinny shuffle down the hallway. And you could see that his. His joints weren't inflamed anymore. So we were like, cool, this is great. You know, let's. Let's, you know. You know, this was awesome. And the Kenalog injections were one of the forms of treatments that our naturopathic doctor said that he would give his children that if they needed it. So it was also a thing that we were like, okay, you know, we. We trust. Trust the science on the Kenalog. Yeah. [00:58:22] Speaker B: With a naturopathic doctor along the way as well. [00:58:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. We've been seeing naturopathic doctors for a while. [00:58:30] Speaker B: Okay. [00:58:31] Speaker A: And. And also a pediatrician. So we're not anti Western medicine. Our pediatrician is a family friend and he's a lovely man and someone who we trust. And that's, that's important to get to know your physician and trust them and ask questions. And he is not. He is completely fine with whatever we decide to do. If we take his advice or not. He is respectable about that and is completely on board to whatever we have, you know, whatever we decide to do. Yeah. Then that summer of 2024, we were seeing the Spokane pediatric rheumatologist. After the Kenalog injections, they wanted Quintus. After more blood work, they wanted Quintus to have quite a lot of more medical interventions. They wanted him to have a biologic infusion every two weeks. [00:59:41] Speaker B: Which biologic, can I ask? [00:59:44] Speaker A: Ectemra. [00:59:46] Speaker B: Okay. [00:59:47] Speaker A: They wanted him to have a oral steroid, prednison every day. And then I think maybe I'm getting ectomera mixed up. And then they also wanted him to have a. A needle. What's it called, you know, like when you subcutaneously, when it's just underneath the skin. I think I might have having a brain fart on. I should probably should have written that one down. [01:00:18] Speaker B: That's all right. [01:00:21] Speaker A: Yeah. And so they wanted him to have those three things and we were like, whoa, like, let's talk about this. What are the case studies of a two year old having all of this? Oh, there aren't any case studies. Oh, okay. Well, okay. And what about over the ages of 5 or under the ages of 5? There's not a lot of research with all of these medicines and very young children. And so, you know, that made us question it and also how much he was improving on a daily basis after the Kenalog injections. And the first time that we met with the pediatric rheumatologist here in Spokane, I asked her about environmental issues. I asked her about our lifestyle, of the farm, of the. The food that he was eating and nutrition. And she didn't have a very pleasant response when I asked her about diet and nutrition. And I took that as a red flag. [01:01:36] Speaker B: So what was the response? What was the not very pleasant response? [01:01:41] Speaker A: Coughing, the. Oh, oh, that's what you are. You know, you, you get the label of, okay, crazy, homeopathic, you know, my little witchcraft of whatever, my, you know, tonics and things like that in my pantry. And we hadn't even gone there. I didn't even talk about, you know, any of that. I talked about, we had a recommendation from our pediatrician, who, you know, are regular pediatrician, not our homeopathic doctor to get all this. So she had no way to think that we were, you know, crazy naturopathic people. And until I asked that question and it changed her demeanor during the visit. You know, as a parent, you're already so like wrecked on the inside because we were being told from these medical professionals that he was going to be crazy crippled for life, that he was going to be disabled for life. And, and when as a parent, when you hear those words, you're like, well, that's horrifying. So what can I do to prevent that from happening? Is there anything I can do to prevent that from happening? Yeah, you know, as a mom, as a protector, you're just, you're going to do that. And so then that leads to research and I can look up case studies. You know, it. Just because you have a medical degree or something like that doesn't mean you can't read a case study. And yeah, I might have to look up some of the vocabulary words and things like that, but I can still figure stuff out. I might have like a, literally a fifth grade level of math and, you know, flunked out of a bunch of stuff in school. That doesn't mean that I don't. Can't figure stuff out. The world is unlimited in knowledge. You just have to ask questions and research stuff on your own books. Go to the Library, you know, YouTube University. YouTube University, exactly. Find some old books on ebay on stuff and buy them and read them. You know, library. I've done that. Go to the library. Yeah, they're free. Yeah. And, and so, you know, I was doing that and, and looking up all the medicines that they wanted him to take and the side effects. [01:04:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:04:31] Speaker A: And you know, was it worth it? Were these potentially of his, of, of him having no immune system, basically being bubble boy? Was that worth it? And if we thought it was going to be worth it, then we would have made the decisions. I would have moved us, my husband and I would have moved. We would have gotten rid of the farm. Like, if we had had to have different, you know, living situations to take care of our child, we would have done that. No question. I would. To the ends of the earth, right? Yeah, the ends of the earth for any of our children, no matter what, what they've got. You move mountains. Right. And so then, so when I brought up the diet and asking about stuff like that, I was felt like definitely labeled into crazy natural pathic Family, my hordes of, you know, children. [01:05:33] Speaker B: Right. [01:05:34] Speaker A: And the relationship changed, and that's significant. [01:05:38] Speaker B: So, you know, I always say you can't assume ill intent. So maybe, you know, she didn't say that necessarily out loud. But you noticed a difference, is what I hear you saying. You notice a difference in her demeanor towards you and how she treated you from that moment on. Once you asked about what, what, you know, diet and environment could be impacting this. [01:06:03] Speaker A: Yeah, because the medicine that they wanted me to give him subcutaneously was coming at a two year old with a little tiny needle. And here, child, lay down and let me stick you with a needle. Like, okay, I'm, I'm being a little snarky with that, but how do you communicate that with the child? How do you get them to drink prednisone, which tastes like it is horrible. How do you convince a child to drink something that tastes horrible? I couldn't mask it in, you know, homemade pudding or peanut butter or yogurt or a smoothie or nothing. I mean, this stuff tastes nasty. He either threw it up or he spit it at me. And I'm trying to communicate back and forth with the doctor and their staff of ways to help me, you know, get this into him. Methotrexate. That's it. That's the medicine. Yeah. [01:07:04] Speaker B: And naturally you're, you're going to go, is it worth it? I mean, of course you're going to do research because you're having to go through all this with your, with your child and all this, you know, traumatic kind of, you know, trying to get him to take something that he doesn't want to take. And he's 2 years old and, and so of course you're probably going, okay, is it really worth it? You know, is this stuff really going to help? Is it? And is there side effects and all that? Absolutely. That seems very natural to me, Emily. You know, that you would research and question and go because there's no one size fits. All right. But you also want some assurances that what you're putting in your child is not going to, to be, he's going to be worse off and it's toxic either. [01:07:50] Speaker A: Right. And they're, you know, their, their response when I told them that I was having a hard time sticking him with this little needle was to send me a YouTube video on how to give him a wrestling like, hold that also included my husband. And I'm like, like what? Like, who's gonna be. How much trauma do you want him to subdued, Right. Or or not subdued, but receive. Like, seriously? That's it? That's all you got? Like a wrestling hold? That sounds horrific. When I've asked you about other things and you've discredited them. So unfortunately, that relationship didn't end well, and she broke up with us, and we had a referral to when. [01:08:45] Speaker B: You mean broke up with you. [01:08:47] Speaker A: Yeah. So we got an email through my chart that said that I don't think that we can help you with your care. Here's another rheumatologist that. That works in Bellevue that I believe will help you. Like, we got broken up with. They fired us. And so that was after about. About two months from, like, July, September. And then October is. Or September. October is when we. We went to Bellevue. [01:09:26] Speaker B: Okay, so. So let me just make sure I got this correct. So. So you. She went to this rheumatologist. Am I saying that right? [01:09:35] Speaker A: Rheumatoid arthritis. Yeah, rheumatologist. [01:09:38] Speaker B: Rheumatologist. And you did the shots. [01:09:44] Speaker A: So you did the shots, you tried. [01:09:46] Speaker B: Doing the other treatments. And then after you asked the question. I just want to make sure I got this straight in my head. After you asked the question about diet and environmental factors, could they be contributing, then she basically said, I can't treat you or I'm breaking up with you. [01:10:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. We hadn't done the. The biometric biologic infusion yet. We were going to try because that was another thing. Okay, so when you do research on children that have systemic juvenile idiopathic arthritis or jia, they. All of those medicines are, like, throwing the kitchen sink. [01:10:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:34] Speaker A: Okay, so what happens if we try one at a time? Like, is that a possibility? And that didn't even seem to be a possibility. Yeah, because we're gonna try it ourselves. [01:10:46] Speaker B: You know, which one is working, which one isn't. [01:10:49] Speaker A: Right. [01:10:49] Speaker B: Which one's maybe causing. If there's a certain side effect. If I try four things at once, right at the same time, you're not going to know which one is causing a side effect. [01:10:59] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. You get this child who has gone from literally, he's never had ibuprofen or anything like that, to all of a sudden, you're gonna throw all this stuff at his poor little system at two years of old. Two years of age. Like, maybe we'll try something. And don't forget I told you that he was improving every day after the Kenalog injections. And when I kept bringing that up, that was unexplainable to them. They were like, well, it's not going to last. But they can never tell me how long it was going to last. It wasn't going to last. That, that's not a forever treatment. And I was like, well, could we do it once a year, once every six months? I mean, it wasn't that bad. And he improved so well in a positive manner and maybe we just do that and that wasn't acceptable. [01:11:56] Speaker B: That's so interesting. And I don't mean to rabbit trail here, but, but this is happening right now with my dad and I just wanted, because this is, this is not, you know, a one off. My dad is 85 years old and I, and I don't, I want to keep on this, Emily, but I, I, this is so important for people to hear this. My dad is 85 years old. He was diagnosed with prostate cancer in the spring. His PSA was 10.1 and which is very high. Normal range is 4 for over 60. He's 85 years old. He's been, he's been taking the drug that they find, a steroid, I think, and they wanted to do radiation and then they also wanted to go in and cut, you know, the cancer off his prostate. He had a Gleason score of nine. You know, they did the MRI and stuff and. But we've also been doing ivermectin and fenbendazole because I've been doing all this research on it and seeing all these great cases. His psa, we, we found out, oh, just a couple weeks ago, probably three weeks ago. His PSA is 5.1 now. [01:13:02] Speaker A: Wow. [01:13:03] Speaker B: 5.1 in a few months. And his urologist said, well, that's because of the drug I'm giving you. And he's like, well, how do I know, you know? But they want to proceed with radiation. And I said, why? It's getting better. Similar. Similar. Yeah, it's getting better. Why would you risk the side effects and the risk with radiation if you, if, if you're getting better? Like, he's almost in the normal range with this psa. Now, I don't understand everything, but here you've got indicators, right? You've got, you think about how he's feeling, the symptoms, you know, and you have a PSA and you have, you know, the blood test. So kind of a similar situation. It's all getting better. So why do you have to do all this other stuff, you know, and we don't have those answers yet. He hasn't been able to get those answers. So anyway, get back to your story because I'm Just like. And he's frustrated. [01:14:03] Speaker A: He's. [01:14:03] Speaker B: He's, you know, and he's having side effects. He's, you know, from this medicine that he's taking load drive, suicidal thoughts. And he's having some issues with his eyesight, which is really frustrating. And we don't know if that's tight or not. It could be, yeah. But again, back to your story. Your son is improving by the one you did. The one. It's not like you didn't do anything. [01:14:34] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [01:14:36] Speaker B: And yet they're wanting to throw all this other stuff at you. And you were trying to do some of the other treatments, but they weren't. It wasn't working. So tell us kind of from there, what. Yeah. What transpired. [01:14:49] Speaker A: So then we get to go to Bellevue and Happy go to the ends of the earth for my child. Right. Any child. Doesn't matter. Okay. My husband has to take the day off work. We have. It's three hours from our house. We have to have the grandparents come in and help take care of the farm and the other kids, the four, you know, girls that are still at home for the whole day. And we drive through three hours there. We have an appointment with a new pediatric rheumatologist. And at the beginning of our visit, I was like, okay, this guy seems to be listening to us. His bedside manner was much more opening and. Or maybe not openings. Right word. Gracious and understanding. And I felt like he was listening to us and where we were coming from. And he had more information about the medicines and the methotrexate, which is the one that was supposed to be subcutaneously. When I was telling him about the nightmare that that was to try to give to our son, he said, well, why don't you just squirt it in some pudding? You can draw it out with the needle, the dosage, and squirt it into pudding. You don't have to give that to him subcutaneously. He could eat it. And I was quite shocked, and I said, oh, well, maybe you should tell the other rheumatologist to tell her patients. That would have been useful information. And. And. But of course, he still wanted us to do those three things. The biologic infusion every two weeks, the prednisone, and the methotrexate. Ectemora is the biologic medicine. [01:16:47] Speaker B: How do you spell that? [01:16:49] Speaker A: It starts with an A. You know, I have a September. Okay, that's bad. Spellers of the world. [01:16:55] Speaker B: That's okay. [01:16:56] Speaker A: Untie. [01:16:56] Speaker B: So I have. I've heard Some, I know they can help a lot of people, but I also have heard some, some I have a very close person in my life that has rheumatoid arthritis and they wanted to give them a biologic. And the, our mainstream doctor was like, this has causes cancer. I, I, it might help you, but, man, I really don't. [01:17:18] Speaker A: Pretty nasty. Yeah. [01:17:20] Speaker B: Yeah. So, yeah. [01:17:21] Speaker A: And so we saw him in September. Yep, September of 2024, on our first trip to Bellevue. Yeah. And so we left and, and he reiterated he's going to be crippled for life. He is going to be disabled. Like, he still was throwing those really scary words at us. And in his, you know, examination with him, of course, is very, very fast. You know, doctors don't really spend very much time with you. And we just drove three hours. This, you know, wiggly two year old just sat in a car for three hours, then in a waiting room, you know, trying to get out his wiggles and you're a new stranger. And he didn't quite, you know, participate as well as he might have been if we'd had more time or if he'd met him before, which I acknowledge that, you know, you can't expect a kid to, you know, he's two. Right. Yeah. And so we did leave feeling a little bit better about the ectemra. Like, okay, if, you know, part of it was explained a little bit better. And maybe they're not going to be any side effects. There shouldn't be. It's through an infusion, so you just kind of come once and it's not a daily thing. And there really shouldn't be that many side effects to it. And so we were feeling a little bit better about just doing that rather than the other things. Of course, he still wanted us to do them, and, but we were hesitant to do all three. And plus we couldn't get the prednisone. I could not. The taste of that is horrible. Oh, and I also talked to every single compounding pharmacist in this area, and they all told me there's nothing we can do. We can't make it into a great flavored sucker. Like, there's nothing. It's just the way that it is. And it's why it doesn't really go to small children, because you can, you know, an older child, you can be like, hold your nose and, you know. [01:19:52] Speaker B: This is gonna help you really, you. [01:19:55] Speaker A: Know, spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down. Right. And so in the beginning Of October of 2024, I took Quintus to one infusion, one biologic medicine infusion appointment. And you know, that was a nightmare because not only did they do the biologic infusion, but since he had not had any of the oral steroid, they wanted to give him that. And right before. So the whole thing took five hours, which was exhausting. And you're in this little tiny hospital room and Quintus had roid rage. He'd never had the steroid before. [01:20:49] Speaker B: Wow. [01:20:50] Speaker A: And in fact, the volume, the amount that they wanted to give him, the infusion nurse questioned it and she made the decision to call the doctor and tell the doctor she wasn't going to give him as much as they prescribed. She had a two year old and was like, I wouldn't give my kid this much. Let's tone it down. And she made that call and I really thank her quite a bit. And so we didn't give him the full, you know, amount that the doctor wanted. And he roid, raged out. He was nine on the IV line like a. Like he was going insane. His. We had to keep him on the bed because he had a IV line. Right. And he was like moving all around and just like at one point. And I also had a hard time communicating with the staff because I couldn't find the button. And nobody checked on us during this time. And we could see them walking by. And if it had been like a full blown emergency, oh, I would have been bellowing to the, you know, hi, Hades. I would have pulled something or whatever. But nobody did check on to us until it was all done, until the machine started beeping. And I have a picture of him when he was coming down off of that medicine and he is laying on the bottom, the end of the bed and he had this toy car and he was gnawing on it like a. Like a dog, like. And he was just like this weird pose. It was really awful. They had this lovely dog come around to help, you know, because we were in the pediatric. Yeah. Pediatric unit and they had this dog and Quintus didn't. My son didn't want to pet the dog. And I'm like, you're here for me, puppy. I want to hold you. [01:22:57] Speaker B: To see your child go through that. [01:22:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:23:00] Speaker B: Horrific. [01:23:01] Speaker A: And so we left that appointment. It was the beginning of October 20, 25 and 24. Or sorry, 24. Yeah. And thinking, okay, like we did that. You know, that was horrific. Let's see what is lab work is going to improve a whole bunch. You know, should we continue that? Do that again? Could I leave the fact that it was a horrific appointment and take those things away, that if it gone smoother, you know, would have been okay. And, you know, to try to look at it logically and take the emotion of the mom heart and all of that out of it, like. But it's medicine. [01:23:42] Speaker B: Yeah, but it's inhumane. I mean, it is, it is completely inhumane to expect you and your son to go through this for five hours and then to, oh, he's got to have the steroid injection too, you know, So, I mean, like, it just, it's horrific. [01:24:01] Speaker A: And every two weeks go through this IV thing and it disrupts, I mean, the whole family. Yeah. [01:24:07] Speaker B: Because you're. It's not easy for you to leave your family and your farm. Like, there's things that have to be taken care of. But like you said, you would have moved. You'll move mountains for your children. Right. [01:24:17] Speaker A: Could you get them to come to the house? You know, they do, you know, other kind of care. Could an infusion nurse come to the house or whatever? You know, we could have, we would have, if we thought it was necessary, done that kind of research. [01:24:32] Speaker B: Were you doing the infusions here in Spokane or were you having to go all the way to Bellevue to get. [01:24:37] Speaker A: That done in Spokane? [01:24:39] Speaker B: Okay, so at least. [01:24:40] Speaker A: Yeah, oncology unit. Yeah. And so then we went back to have a follow up appointment to Bellevue and that was in November. And so a month after he had had that one biologic infusion. And after that appointment, of course, I'm talking to the nurse about things to look for, for any kind of side effects, you know, with just anything, because it was on a Friday. So of course we had that weekend. You know, here's a gamut of things to look at and to come into the ER or whatever. I wanted a lot of that information so I could really keep an eye on him. And fortunately, the only thing he had was a runny nose. She said that was really common cold, kind of minor cold symptoms. And so he got stuffy and had a little bit of a runny nose over the weekend and was fine. Praise be to God. Yeah. And so we went to Bellevue again at the beginning of November of 2024 for follow up appointment. And between the October visit and the November visit, we didn't have any lab work after that visit. Like they did his labs before they gave him the medicine, but there wasn't labs after that until this November visit. [01:26:12] Speaker B: Okay. [01:26:13] Speaker A: And with the assumption, because this happened last time, that we would do lab work at the Bellevue Clinic because they Have a lab there. And so when we walked into this appointment, it's the same thing. Three hour drive, right? Waiting room, you know, then we see the doctor, and within a couple of minutes of him finding out that we had only had one infusion, that we were supposed to have at least two, by the time he was going to sequence us again. His demeanor. His demeanor, his bedside manner, it was like Jekyll and Hyde. You could see, like, outwardly he was really mad at us. And I was like, oh, well, this is interesting. You know, he was pretty jovial and happy and, you know, nice the first time, and now he's not nice. So at first my personality is, okay, he's having a bad day. You know, something happened. Let's just let this go. I'm not one to raise a stink right away without good reason. And I can keep my temper in check most of the time. And this was a time that I could, you know, we drove all this way. Let's respect this guy and his time. We'll just continue this appointment. I'm going to take a mental note of how upset he is at us. Let's continue this appointment. So one of the things that he wanted to do was examine Quintus with his mobility and his flexibility. And so, you know, you're in a little tiny room, and then there's a hallway, and you go out in the hallway, and he wanted Quintus to take his hands like this and fl. Flat put them on a wall in the hallway to see the mobility of this in Quintus. And Quintus wanted nothing to do with that. I mean, he'd been in a car, he was squirrely. He could probably sense that, you know, this doctor wasn't as nice. It was the first time. It was a different nurse. And we didn't have the child life specialist with there with all the blinking, you know, distraction toys that they, you know, wonderful that they offer that. We didn't have that this time. So there was a lot of different things about the appointment. And kids are smart. They pick up on, you know, social cues and, you know, things like that and. Or not social cues, but, you know, feeling. [01:28:54] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Energies. Yeah. Energy. [01:28:57] Speaker A: Yeah. And so he didn't want to play his game, and he got mad that Quintus wouldn't do that. The doctor did. And I was like, oh, great. [01:29:08] Speaker B: Quintus is a three year old, right? At this time. [01:29:10] Speaker A: Yeah. No, he's two. Almost two and a half. Yeah. Yeah. And so we go back into the exam room and he's sitting on my lap to try to. To do the physical exam. And, you know, Quinny's not really doing it, and he gets upset again and is flustered, and then he's like, well, why didn't you do the infusion again? And I said, well, nobody followed up from us. Nobody from the infusion center followed up from us. Your office didn't follow up from us. You know, nobody when we left, said, hey, do you want to book your second appointment? Nobody from the Spokane rheumatologist office followed up. And he gave the impression that it was my responsibility. I was supposed to be calling the infusion place to make the second appointment. So miscommunication. Okay, I'm sorry. I didn't do that. And the physician kind of throws a wee bit of a fit in the room and calls up the infusion, actually calls up the spirit Spokane rheumatologist office to complain to them of why we didn't have it. So then that is a discussion on speakerphone. And he's upset. They're upset. And then, like, I'm there, and they're all blaming me, and it's my fault. And that was an interesting, you know, conversation. So. So. And we. Oh, oh. And we asked to do. Excuse me. We asked to do lab work like we did last time. Like, let's do lab work, check his lab work if we really need to do this again. And by. Also by now, my very, very long fused husband, who's. Who's at all these appointments, is visually showing signs of tension. [01:31:13] Speaker B: Sorry, you're all right. [01:31:16] Speaker A: And so we. So we're getting ready to leave, and we asked him about the lab work, and he's all like, no, just do it back when, you know, you get back to Spokane. And. Because he was really, really wound up and upset at us. [01:31:31] Speaker B: So we're like, okay, so he has no new data. He has no data. [01:31:37] Speaker A: He's just mad at us that we had done what we were supposed to be doing. And it. It was. It felt like it was a waste of his time, this appointment. And Quintus wasn't, you know, listening to him and doing what he wanted. And so he didn't get, you know, get to do what he wanted to do or whatever. He was all out of joint, and he was upset. So we came home and drove three hours back home, and my husband and I communicated and had a nice, long decompression discussion about what we were going through. I mean, we just talked it, hashed it out the way husband and wives lovingly do. I Mean, no anger or anything. Just very logical, talking about this, taking all the emotion, taking all of his body language, the doctor's body language, taking all of that out. And just like here, the facts here's, you know, the. The lab work, things like that, the. The kind of identifiers of the progression of Quintus's health. Is this really worth it? That was the question that we were trying to come seeing this rheumatologist again. Is this really worth it? And after our long discussion, we had determined that it was no longer worth it. His lab work was improving. We can get lab work done with our pediatrician, with our natural path. We can get lab work done. If that's all that they're going off of and some crummy, you know, physical exam that Quintus didn't do, then we could, like, do that on our own. We don't need to do this anymore. He doesn't have any additional information for us. We didn't do the treatments that he wanted to, and he's upset about that. And why would we see him again? Why would we go through this? Why would we be treated like this again? You know, this whole thing, it disrupts the whole family. We're just politely done, and we're going to see if we can find a more natural pathic rheumatologist. Is there is such a thing? I don't know. Let's Google it. You know, let's talk to our network of people, and maybe there's a more crunchy rheumatologist out there that has a different opinion and some more information, and let's just pick somebody else's brain. There's got to be another way to skin the cat, as my grandma would say. Right. And so we decided we were going to politely end our relationship with the doctor in Bellevue. And so that evening, I had wrote up a very polite email through my chart saying, we are no longer going to see you. Thank you for your time. Have a great day. You know, done with you. I canceled the appointments that we had preset. There was, like, one in January or December or whatever, another one in March or whatever. Because the pass we had to go over the past past. We didn't want to do that in the winter and stuff like that. [01:34:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:34:53] Speaker A: And then we got an email in return asking who we were going to see. And I found that as odd. Like, it doesn't matter. Like, what do you care who we're gonna see? We're not gonna see you. Take us off your schedule. Thank you for My time, your time, you know, peace out. Like, why do we have to explain ourselves? I didn't understand why we felt like we had to do that. And so I talked with our natural path and we found a more of a naturopathic doctor also on the west side of Washington. And so we were going to look into that, you know, check her out and see if she, you know, was available. What, you know, another avenue. [01:35:46] Speaker B: Right. [01:35:46] Speaker A: So we sent that information along with the rheumatologist and he, of course, his staff looked her up and saw that she was more naturopathic and she wasn't a pediatric rheumatologist. She had quite an extensive background in that field, but she wasn't that specific to title. And we said, yes, we know this. Thank you, Mr. Obvious. Like, I didn't say that. I was very polite in my emails and thought none the wiser. Okay, we've broken up, cleared the ties, paid our bill. Like, you know, we're done with you people. We're going to leave it at that. So that was about the beginning of November 2nd, first week of November of 2024. Then about two weeks later, the day before Thanksgiving, we get a call from Child Protective Services. In one hour, a caseworker is going to come to the house and interview us that we have been reported as medical negligent parents, that we are not taking care of our son as we should, per the state of Washington, and that we need to be investigated. What? Like, what? Like, at first the rebel in me is just like, oh, the government's coming. Like, you can't tell me what to do. It's my kid. Like, I was audibly, you know, a little upset about that. And then I'm thinking it's the day before Thanksgiving. Like, are you kidding me? And then of course I'm thinking I need to clean the toilet. Like, what you get to look at, you know, like, what are they going to get you? Yeah, we have chores. Like, we have, like, the kids. Like, what do I have to prepare? Like, you know, do I have to let them in? You know, should I let them in? You know, do I have to? No, you don't really have to. You don't, you don't have to. But does that look bad if you don't, you know, could I let the dogs out and like, you know, tell her to get off our property? You know, be all hillbilly or, or whatever. And in an hour, right? That was our, that was our, our warning or whatever. [01:38:22] Speaker B: So. So nobody contacted you and had a conversation and and asked you. It was just, boom, they're coming. And you're, you're being invested. [01:38:33] Speaker A: 30 on a Wednesday afternoon, day before, Day before Thanksgiving. We're coming, okay? The British is coming. [01:38:44] Speaker B: Inhumane again, right? Humane. Like, this is, this is, you know. [01:38:50] Speaker A: So we, you know, I clean toilets. I mean, you know, like, I don't know what she's gonna look at, you know, like, I don't know. But you, I, I did get a little insecure about that. And I'm like, golly gee, you know, you know, maybe we are like, it are we. You know, the devil gets in when fear gets in and fear takes over and you just start to think of, well, do they know what's better? Like, it's supposed to be authority. And, you know, we're doing our very best, and maybe our best is good enough. You know, all these insecurities come out for that moment, that hour of me cleaning toilets and vacuuming and, you know, putting dirty dishes in the oven and, you know, just the, the things, you know, where are they gonna go? Like, the whole house? Like, are they gonna see the closet? Like, you know, the garage now? [01:39:46] Speaker B: What are they gonna do? Well, it's. Again, what am I going to get judged on? [01:39:51] Speaker A: Right? Yeah. What's their checklist? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Are they going to be judging the toilet bowl scum? That's basically my level of, oh, dear. So, and then what do we tell the kids? Like, hey, kids, this lady's coming to house because somebody thinks that we're bad parents. Like, what do you tell your children? And you don't have time to prepare or think. The first thing I did is after I received the phone call, I said, okay, we'll see you in an hour. Thank you very much. Hung up the phone. The first thing I did was call our priest and I said, please pray for us. I don't know what's going on, but we need some prayers today. And then I sent a message out to our prayer group and we got some drama going on. And I can't tell you anything right now, but please just pray for our family tonight and happy Thanksgiving tomorrow. Like everyone. That's the first thing we did. And then we tried to do some cleaning. Not a whole bunch, you know, vacuum swept, whatever. And the kids were outside doing chores and little minor research of if we had to let them in. So we did contact some friends that we have that are lawyers and police officers, just getting some opinions from people through, you know, community. And some people said to let them in. Some people said not to some people said, if you don't, it might make it worse. But some people were like, you're right. Worse. Yeah, yeah. So. And some people were like, don't let them in. Don't let them come down the driveway. Like, a little more hostile than I was. I mean, inwardly my rebel is like, yeah, you know, meet him at the end of the road. Thou shall not enter my property. But I was like, let's try to take this calm, cool and collected and see, kind of methodically, see how this goes. Lady came, she gets out of her car. The feral farm children are out getting eggs, running around because it's starting to get dark in November here in Pacific Northwest at five o' clock at night. I mean, she's got a family too. This celebrate Thanksgiving tomorrow. So I, I kind of felt bad for this lady too, had come all the way out here. And so she gets out of the house, gets out of the car, introduces herself, shake hands. Here are the kids, you know. And then she asked if she could come in and she wants to tell us why she is here. Well, it's cold, it's dark. And of course I'm going to let her in because it's cold and it's dark and I didn't have a coat. I mean, we were just all running around. And so we let her in and we sat or stood basically in our dining room for over an hour while she explained why she was there. She couldn't tell us who reported us, but I mean, it was not medical negligence. Was kind of like, oh, okay, and now they're involved. Here's what we can do moving forward. And we now have an open case, and we basically have to prove to her that we are not bad parents. So after about the 90 minutes, hour and a half that she was at our home, the interesting thing she said at the end was, I can't find anything wrong. You have, you did the treatments, you went to the appointments, you have the lab work. You didn't just not show up to things like you were doing the things. Because I could do the timeline right to her. And we had just gotten back, like less than two weeks from another thing to Bellevue. I'm like, we were still going to the appointments. We, we were still politely going to the apartments. We never were disrespectful to them in ev. In any appointment, in any email. My conscience is different. Why go to confession? Thank goodness for that. But, you know, we were always respectful. Respectful. Even if we disagreed, we were respectful people. And, and she, and she said that, and maybe she shouldn't have said that, but she did. And so I was like, okay, well this Clyde case, case closed. Like, happy Thanksgiving, you know, we never need to see you again. No, no, it wasn't that. The case wasn't closed until the end of February of 2025. So we went through December, January, February and half of November.ish. about three and a half months of keeping this lady up to date of when appointments were happening and lab work that we were getting done with our natural path and appointments and things like that. And so the after Thanksgiving, that Monday. Well, actually I started that weekend of Thanksgiving. I went to our community and any single person I knew who was in law enforcement or family lawyer or any kind of lawyer, we need a lawyer that. I, I just knew that we needed that. So we got a lawyer. And if you've never. And we had never experienced anything like this in our family, lawyers are expensive. And there went Christmas. I mean, you have to spend a couple thousand dollars as a retainer for a lawyer. And we don't, we're not, you know, money isn't coming from the sky. So that was rough. That was rough to be able to put that burden on our family of okay, but you know, this is what we got to do. It's important. And so we did it. And so we saw she came out. So we were mostly communication through email and phone messages. And she came out. We, we had another visit. It wasn't until after the new year because she had to go through all of the documentation from all of the doctors, she had to go through all of that. So that took a while to get all those medical records. And plus then you add in Christmas and New Year's, so like, you know, everyone's checked out. It's the end of the year. So none of that really got done until our. We had an interview. She said that she wanted to interview the children. And I was like, I kind of laughed. I actually really did laugh at her. I was like, what? Like, what are you gonna get out of a, at that time, a two year old, four year old? You know, like, what. How are you. Seriously, you're gonna interview all five of the children? Yes, all five of the children. Okay, well, what kind of questions are you going to ask? Because I want to know that if, you know, there's a set of vocabulary words that are very mainstream that our children aren't exposed to. And are you going to ask about stuff like that, man, you know, are. What, what can you possibly ask them? And can I be There, because, no, I can't. Okay. And so of course she's not going to tell us the questions and we can't be there. Well, I'm glad we have a lawyer because he's gonna be there. So we set that appointment for Valentine's Day and we went down to the lawyer's office. And it being Valentine's Day, of course we made like homemade brownies and we brought them to try to, you know, make it a jovial experience for the kids that she's gonna ask you some questions, you'll be with the lawyer. You're gonna have a Brookie. We made a cookie with a brownie, you know, treats. And here's some, you know, we can bring some toys and play and, you know, tried to make it low key as possible for them. And we showed up and she was late. And it wasn't the first time she was late to things. And, and that, that was, that was a difficult one for me because, you know, take the time off of work and all this stuff and I can get to this office and be five to 10 minutes early with my five children, downtown Spokane, valley parking, like the whole deal. And you're 20 minutes late and your office is downtown. Okay. So check the, check the, you know, the attitude. But again, we were respectful. We were kind, we were cared about this woman, my children and I have been praying for her. We've always been praying for this lady found out she has a young child and, you know, you know, you just, you know, they're people too. It's not her. You know, this is not her. She reports to somebody. [01:50:31] Speaker B: Yep. [01:50:32] Speaker A: And, and so we, we had the interview. It was very, very short. We spent more time chit chatting with our lawyer and hanging out and just visiting than the actual interview went. Thank God. Like they're really. [01:50:53] Speaker B: But you weren't allowed to be in the room when she talked to your child. [01:50:56] Speaker A: We were. That got changed. And so we were all just sitting around in a big conference room, you know, like one of those tables with like 15 chairs around it and the spinny chairs, so you can imagine. Yeah. Crumbs all over. [01:51:13] Speaker B: Well, and you wonder how much of that was changed because you had an attorney problem present. [01:51:18] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. You know, there is a bit of posturing that you do of, you know, playing the game and, you know, we've got a lawyer and, you know, we're gonna do this and, you know, protect ourselves and our family because that's what you do. And totally unknown. And, you know, we had talked to some friends of Ours who are in the career of social workers and got other people's opinion and lots of other people's opinions said that they would have, the case would have been dropped, like right away after that first initial interview when we had told them that all the things that we had done and were following what they recommended to a certain degree that it should have been case closed. And so it makes you wonder, and this is 1000% my opinion. [01:52:20] Speaker B: Speculation. [01:52:21] Speaker A: Speculation of, well, did the pediatric rheumatologist in Bellevue lie? I mean, maybe he fabricated some things. [01:52:34] Speaker B: Or maybe he just filled out the picture in a way. [01:52:37] Speaker A: Yeah, he left some details out and then it was flagged. And, and then you start wondering and you start thinking and you start asking questions and then you find out through your googling and reading of articles that the Child Protective Services Department reports to the state attorney directly. So then you wonder, well, why does that happen and what's the correlation connection? What does a state attorney's office, you know, why, why is there a connection with that and what is the benefit? [01:53:28] Speaker B: So, okay, so let's, let's. I gotta understand this. So this, the AG's office, the state attorney general's office has oversight of CPS. [01:53:40] Speaker A: The CPS reports to them directly. [01:53:43] Speaker B: Pretty sure they, they report to the Health and Human Services. They Department of Health. That's not what I'm thinking of. I'm thinking of, I'll think of it. Okay. But they, they, they probably have, I don't know that the AG's office would have oversight. I think it's the right, maybe not oversight, but they, but every agency will have a, an attorney that is assigned to their agency because that's, we had that on the State Board of Education. [01:54:15] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. [01:54:17] Speaker B: Okay. So tell me, tell me more about that interconnection, though. [01:54:22] Speaker A: So you just kind of wonder like, you know, if the, if the Child Protective Services in a state is reporting to the Department of Health and Services. Right. Which is reporting to the Attorney General office. Well, then who, who's in charge? Who, you wonder who is in charge of that connection? And if, if it really is, if the assumption, the, you know, the connection of one very well known. I have looked up our, the pediatrician, the rheumatoid arthritis doctor that we were seeing in Bellevue. I have scoured his, his Internet usage, his, or what's on the Internet from him and his reports and his case studies that he's done and his teaching at a major university in our state and his reputation. Well, what would he, if anything, does he have to gain from sending CPS after some country bunkins in Eastern Washington. You just. [01:55:59] Speaker B: And again, that's speculation. Right. You don't have any evidence? [01:56:03] Speaker A: Thousand percent. [01:56:04] Speaker B: If you happen to look up the PDC information of donations at all, did you have. [01:56:11] Speaker A: I have to. A little bit. [01:56:13] Speaker B: Okay. [01:56:15] Speaker A: Not really. [01:56:17] Speaker B: Not directly. Okay. [01:56:18] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I was hoping to see some picture of maybe, you know, that pediatrician, that rheumatologist at some function, you know, where there's a fundraiser or whatever for some political candidate. [01:56:37] Speaker B: And how did that connection come up? Like why, why did you become aware of that connection of. [01:56:42] Speaker A: I just am a curious person. [01:56:45] Speaker B: Okay. [01:56:45] Speaker A: And I just asked questions and wanted to know where this information was going. You know, what is cps, you know, really who do they report to and who's their boss and. [01:56:59] Speaker B: Yeah, and we have a mutual friend that works Curious. Worked in the Department of. Or Social Services here locally. I don't know that she works there anymore. But. So the, the Child Protective Services is under the BRELLA of dcyf. So that's the Department of Youth and Children, Department of Children, Youth and Families. It's an agency that was created. Gosh, when was that created? Back in. Probably, probably at least like 12 years ago as kind of an umbrella, you know, and they, so they've, they've, the legislation has put a bunch of things in that. But again, because it's a state agency, they're also going to have the Attorney General's office that they're going to continue to work with. I don't know that the Attorney General's office actually has the oversight. But like you said, the reports could be going. You know, there's probably certain reports and, and where that information goes. Yeah, it's very interesting. But, and, and Emily, this is, this is fascinating and horrific to me at the same time. And unfortunately you are not the only case I have heard of locally. I'm hearing about similar situations all across the country. I'm. I've heard about, you know, situations right here in Spokane because, you know, they wouldn't get their child vaccinated or their brand new baby. I've heard of other parents having issues like this that seem completely unqualified, if you will. You know, and I get that there. I know some very good people that work for Child Protective Services and I wish, you know, I could get them to talk as well, get them on here to maybe hear the other side of it. I'm sure there's some real honest cases where children are in arms way, truly in arms way. But this Seems such a far reach, such a far reach when, when you're, you're doing all these things and it, it does make you wonder like, is it because you didn't get vaccinated, your kids get. Didn't get vaccinated? Is it because you live on a farm? Is it because you are doing a very natural, you know, not anti big pharma, but, you know, kinda. Right. [01:59:27] Speaker A: And you're questioning, you're asking questions. Yeah. [01:59:30] Speaker B: You're investigating and you're making decisions for yourself. Like, and I, and all of the questioning that comes along with that too. And I've, I've walked a little bit in your shoes with having a son with autism and finding out, you know, when he stopped talking was the MMR and starting to look at research and go, oh my gosh, there is a kind of connection here and starting to question that. And then you, you feel like everybody is questioning you. You feel, you know, and then you're like, oh my gosh, am I a bad mom? And, and you're trying to do what's right for your child. And we live in an information war. Like we, you know, a lot of this stuff I've been talking about with my dad right now, and he's so frustrated. He's. And he's confused, you know, because they're telling him one thing but it's not making sense. And then I'm giving him other information to consider it is his life. And, and we're doing the research together and he's so frustrated because the medical community, you know, won't listen. Won't, Won't acknowledge. Won't acknowledge there might be another way through. Like what the questions you asked through diet, through health, through environmental factors. And then you get a child protective service investigation because you dared to question or you know, seek another route of treatment for your son is. [02:00:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:00:58] Speaker B: There. [02:00:59] Speaker A: Because that was the, the one word that CPS was throwing around all the time was treatment plan. That we were, we weren't following any kind of treatment plan and. Well, yes, we were, we were following their treatment plan, just not to the T that they wanted us to. [02:01:19] Speaker B: So is that the, the qualifying factor for CPS that if you don't follow a treatment plan for your dependent, for your child, does that trigger an investigation? [02:01:32] Speaker A: Yes, that the state has deemed that this is the treatment plan. And right at this time of October, that, that time frame, we were following a treatment plan from our naturopathic doctor. So remember I said that we didn't get that lab work done in that November Yes. We didn't get that lab work done with the rheumatologist. We got the lab work done with our naturopathic doctor in October. And so we followed the treatment plan from our naturopathic doctor, which was dietary concerns and anti inflammatory foods and making sure that he had a really good pre and a probiotic. Your gut health is like 70% of your immune system. And he could, our son could still be having some kind of visual or residual effects from that infusion that he had. And so we were trying to protect and build up his immune system because that just. The temra just, you know, shot it up. And so, so we were following a treatment plan and with supplements and things like that and diet. And he had lab work done in October, and then he had lab work done in November and it got better. And by the end of December, in two months, with this treatment plan from our naturopathic doctor, and with pre and probiotic supplements and a thing called golden milk, which you can look that up. It's like a bunch of black pepper and turmeric and, and cinnamon and things. And then you just mix it with warm milk and naturopathic remedies. He went in two months. By the end of December, he had zero inflammation. And we were, we were sending all this information to CPS as well. So all of his. And so we could say at the end of December that he went from having been diagnosed with systemic juvenile idiopathic arthritis. He was in remission at the end of December of 2024. [02:04:07] Speaker B: Wow. Wow, that's amazing. That's amazing. And so you saw the, the biomarkers, I'm guessing lab work, you know, blood tests or whatever. What, what did you see with him physically? How did that change? [02:04:23] Speaker A: He went feral. He went. [02:04:27] Speaker B: You mean that in the best way possible? [02:04:29] Speaker A: Yes. Oh, feral farm kid. He went to running, riding a bicycle, like the, the limited mobility that he had at the beginning and the slow Quinny shuffle that I talked about is non existent. You know, I just posted a video of our PE physical education at homeschooling where we took the goats for a walk. And they're all running around with our goat herd and there's Quinny just running and he rides a bike and he does all these things that you would never know. And he is tall and he's strong and he turned three this last May. And I mean, his grandpa, his great grandfather was like 6 foot 7 or something like that. And his dad is tall, my husband is tall. And you know, he's gonna be. He's a big, strong farm boy. [02:05:29] Speaker B: Yeah. That is awesome. So all these things that your, the doctors had told you that he was going to be disabled, that he was gonna not. He's going to be paralyzed or not be able to walk. [02:05:40] Speaker A: Yep. [02:05:41] Speaker B: Crippled here he is the exact opposite. [02:05:45] Speaker A: Yeah. You'd never know. [02:05:48] Speaker B: No. And, and you know, good for you for sticking to your gut. We know as parents we know what our children need like instinctively. And I think unfortunately a lot of our modern world, and unfortunately modern medicine world has taken that away from us or tried to take that away from us and tried to get us to not trust ourselves. Same as the education system. Like we inherently have that to do what's best for our children. On, on, you know, 99 of the cases. [02:06:26] Speaker A: Right? Yeah. [02:06:27] Speaker B: Maybe there's some bad apples out there, but most time you're going to have parents that are going to do everything they can, but they don't, you know, same thing. I don't, I don't agree with the modern. Most the time now, the modern medical treatment plan and it's always treatment. It's not a healing plan, it's a treatment plan. And I love those doctors out there. I know there's so many good people. But they are part of a medical industrial complex and their hands are tied. Their licenses and their, their livelihoods are tied to this system that they have to adhere to, that they can't question. They can't look at alternative therapies, they can't look at gut health, I guess, and which is crazy. They can't look at ivermectin and fenbendazole. As you know, these, these opportunities that people are kicking cancer's butt and, and overcoming. I mean, you know, anyway, I get fired up, Emily, because this is. Yeah, that's something I'm very, very passionate. [02:07:31] Speaker A: The power of nutrition. It all circles around to us in our farm and raising the food that we eat and knowing how it's raised, where it comes from, what's in it. Yeah. What's not in it? [02:07:46] Speaker B: What's not in it? It's. [02:07:48] Speaker A: And it's in this. Yeah. Of course, the sourdough bread and all of that. This is. And it's doable. We are a one income family with five children. I'm a stay at home mom. Yes. I've got two network marketing side hustles and always extra, you know, thinking beyond of the box. If I could just inspire somebody out there, one other person to just dream that life is attainable by asking questions and taking control of your Decisions and following God's, you know, road map for your life and that it's. It's doable and you can heal yourself through nutrition and through supplements and through vitamins and, you know, different choices. [02:08:52] Speaker B: Yeah. Rheumatoid arthritis is not normally something that people think you ever heal from. [02:08:58] Speaker A: No. [02:08:59] Speaker B: It's kind of like a life sentence. Right. And so that you've been able to completely eradicate this from your son's health is amazing. I mean, that. That shows so much hope right there. That should give so many people hope right there. And, Emily, while I'm thinking about it, how could people get a hold of you, too, if they have questions for you, maybe about things that you've done or maybe about homesteading? [02:09:25] Speaker A: Sure. Yeah. So our homestead Facebook page is public. It's a country Rhodes Homestead llc, and the Rhodes is spelled R H O A D S R H O D E S O R H O A D S O A D S. Yeah. Family name. [02:09:53] Speaker B: Okay. [02:09:53] Speaker A: And the John Denver song is special to our family Roads Homestead, llc. So you can message me on there. My personal Facebook page is pretty private and. But we have a farm. Farm public Facebook page that I'm happy to take messages on there. [02:10:19] Speaker B: Okay. And I will tag that in under this video once we get done here today so people have a way to reach out to you. So, yeah. Country roads. That's awesome. John Denver song. [02:10:33] Speaker A: That's funny. [02:10:33] Speaker B: That just came up the other day. I follow an. Follow an account on X that is a John Denver parody account and shares tons of information about, you know, Ivermectin, fen, Bendazole, health. And I think he actually. Or he or she reposted this video to today, so that's an interesting sink. So I want to talk to you, and I know, you know, we've been going a little bit, but I. But I want to just ask you just a little bit more because you talked about your faith, and I think that is so important. I know for me, Emily, and we've shared this before together, but I wouldn't be here without my faith and my walk with God and the discernment that God has given me, you know, with my children, with their health, with my life and the crazy roads that it has taken that I would have never imagined. I don't know. You know, people don't know this. I was a golf professional teacher. You know, God had other things in store for me, and I'm sure he still does. And now I'm, you know, doing this and getting to listen to amazing Stories like yours, but that discernment that God gives you for your children and for your life. I mean, I really do look at a lot of our system right now and I, and I see us kind of as a whole like being slaves to this. You know, work2jobs, send your kids off to, to an institution where you're going to get educated. They're hopefully going to get educated. But if there's a lot of indoctrination happening, and I have a lot of great people that are in education that I think are wonderful people and it's not their fault. Right. But it's the system. Same with the medical system. Like, and you're beholding, I mean, the drugs that they want to put you on. And I just did some research for my dad I was looking at because his eyesight's been so bad and looked into Dr. Artis and this cataract. Oh. [02:12:41] Speaker A: And they, he. [02:12:42] Speaker B: The one video shows 70 known prescription jugs that cause cataracts. [02:12:51] Speaker A: Have you looked into castor oil? [02:12:53] Speaker B: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. [02:12:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:12:55] Speaker B: My dad's got castor oil. I got castor oil. [02:12:57] Speaker A: Yep. [02:12:58] Speaker B: And then 70 in addition, 70 possible, possibly, likely. So that means very likely. And I mean they've done research on this. So here, you know, a vast amount of people are taking these drugs with a side effect of cataracts. I mean, the research is showing that. And so it's just, you know, we've got to do our research and we've, we are in an information war. And you're not going to hear the truth from your mainstream media because they are paid for by big pharma. They're all in cahoots together. I'm sorry to tell you this, but that's why it's so important that we get people like Emily, you know, like you on here and tell your story. And here you have a real case scenario of what you've gone through to help heal your son. What other things do you guys do? Like, so you make your own bread? [02:13:51] Speaker A: Yep, yep, I make my own bread and I also support a friend of mine who has a micro bakery. I'm a very entrepreneur supporter. Like I said, I, I have two network marketing businesses. But be and because being a stay at home mom, it just doesn't make you like, not provide any income to your family. I read a statistic said that the average millionaire has seven streams of income. So. So, okay, cool. I'll work on that. But our farm, we mainly just do eggs right now because the meat bird season is over for the summer of Course, that's coming up with Thanksgiving. And so we do provide turkeys. All of ours are spoken for this season, but, you know, as we grow and develop our systems, we'll be able to offer more things to our community. We're getting ready to kind of batten down the hatches for winter, and so we will be thinning our geese and our duck flocks. So if you'd like a Christmas goose, you know, they're very tasty. And we also sell meat rabbits. And. And. And that's a whole nother thing of. Our farm is not certified by the usda. And so please eat things from our farm at your own risk. [02:15:40] Speaker B: Well, yeah, and. And that's another unfortunate thing, is we've seen. Seen these farms attacked by usda, and, you know, it's like. It's like everything natural is being attacked, right? [02:15:58] Speaker A: Everything natural. [02:15:59] Speaker B: Everything that's truly good for you is getting attacked right now. And. And it takes. People, please support Emily Country Roads, Homestead llc. [02:16:11] Speaker A: Support your local farm. I mean, support your community. They're all over. [02:16:17] Speaker B: Because it is a. A bit of. It's a bit of a hardship because you have, you know, and again, like, is that why you were targeted? Is that. You know, I mean, it's hard to know. You can only speculate at this point. You. You don't have evidence, but somehow somebody turned you in and you don't know. You know, it's. It's happened to other farms and homesteaders and people that try to do good by their community by raising wholesome foods or raw milk or. We've seen. I mean, we've seen numerous cases like this across the. The country, so. [02:16:51] Speaker A: Yeah, well. And it's such a spiritual. Spiritual battle going on. I mean, this really is really all about the devil. I mean, I truly believe that he is the enemy of everything truthful, beautiful and goodness and good. And. And, you know, you. You do something that's different. You know, you're. He's just out there. I've done so much of, probably majority of my life without a very hard or strong faith. And life is so much easier when you have faith. And it doesn't make life easier. [02:17:37] Speaker B: No. [02:17:40] Speaker A: Makes being able to go through the hard things easier. [02:17:46] Speaker B: Yes. [02:17:46] Speaker A: Because you have a support system that is, you know, unlimited in its power. And, you know, the prayer has been a hot topic recently with the Catholic school shooting in Minneapolis and. Wow, you know, why would people attack prayer if it wasn't that big of a deal? Why would people attack it? [02:18:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:18:20] Speaker A: Riddle me that. [02:18:21] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. It is A very powerful thing. And I agree with you, Emily. And you know, I've seen that so much in my life and standing on scriptures like, you know, God promises to work all things together for our good, you know, for those that love the Lord. He worked this together for your good. He's working. He didn't cause this. He didn't cause this on your son. He didn't, you know, put a sickness on him. Same with my son. He didn't cause him. No, there is, there is a lot of evil in our world, but my goodness, you know, God has worked it all together for, for our good. Because of my son. I questioned the vaccines right from the get go. We all did, or my family did because we knew we had, we have the evidence. Preston was diagnosed when he was five. He stopped talking after the mmr. But he, you know, there was so much going on at 18 months that I didn't know that, you know, I didn't make connect those dots. And not until he was diagnosed when he was five did I start digging and researching and really trying to figure out what the heck happened. And we shortly after that had him tested and toxicity test and he was off the charts toxic in 12 metals. [02:19:37] Speaker A: Oh my God. [02:19:38] Speaker B: Being mercury, number being aluminum, you know, and then on down the list and I was like, what? And I then found out this is what's in these vaccines. Vaccines. And the side effects of mercury poisoning are actually speech impediments, which my son had. And it's, you know, a lot of kids with autism have. So, you know, because of that happening, I, I learned to not. I had asked the doctors, I had a mom come up to me and say, you're not going to vaccinate your boys, right? I have two boys that are about 18 months apart. And I said, what do you mean? And they said, there's a link with autism. I tried to research it, then I tried to ask my doctor and they pooh, poohed. And so we went ahead and they're like, oh, well, then everybody would have autism. You know, I didn't know enough then. And of course it's hard because I feel like, you know, if I would have stuck to my guns, what would have happened? But because of that, you know, I did question stuff and I did. When these vaccines, the COVID vaccine job, whatever you want to call it, come came around, I'm like, this is not the, this is, this is not for us, you know. [02:20:51] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I talked about my background in corporate health care and why is it when it comes down for flu season. And as a staff member, if you don't get the flu shot, you have to walk around campus with a mask. And I had to do that. And why didn't I get the flu and why that? In one of the positions in the hospital, I had. You have to be fit tested for an N95 mask to make sure it seals correctly. Why am I seeing every, you know, just the average person walking around during COVID with an N95 mask? They fit, fit tested for that. Is it working correctly the way it was supposed to from the manufacturer? Like who. Who's it. It just. It. It just didn't make any sense to me during COVID And, and it's not just because I'm a conspiracy theorist or I'm a rebel or, you know, this and that. It's just asking the logical questions and taking the emotion out of things and looking it up and coming to a conclusion. I mean, my fourth grader is learning about the, you know, the scientific theory and, And. And how to do experiments and things like that. It. That's all it is. It's. [02:22:24] Speaker B: And you take evidence from that. You know, that was the thing. I mean, I, you know, pretty much was. I. I don't even know the term for it, but I got passed over very quickly to become chair of the state board of education when I didn't get vaccinated. And I know that. I know that very. I know that in my heart, and I saw evidence of that very clearly. And, And. And yet it's like, okay, there was, you know, 97.5% of people are fine. They're fine. The mortality rate was, if I remember right, was less than 3%. And I, you know, and I love my board members. They're. They're great people. And I had conversations with them, and they're like, mj, why wouldn't you just. Just, you get it. You don't have to have your son get it. I'm like, no, like, this doesn't add up. There's. We don't know what, you know. Nobody knows what's in these things yet. I've been told there's fetal, you know, aborted tissue in it. There's a lot of evidence for that. There's all this, you know, there's so many things that go against my beliefs and what I know is good for us as humans, let alone, you know, what else could be in there, right? And what it's going to do. So, yeah, it's. It's just like you said, to trust yourself to Ask those questions and to not back down because people will try to make you feel like you're crazy. [02:23:51] Speaker A: Yeah. And, you know, I am. I'm. I'm willing to lose a connection with a family member. I am willing to lose a friendship over something like this because it's happened. And it's like, you know, that I am not going to risk the health and safety of my family over a relationship, even if it's, you know, somebody who I hold dear to my heart. [02:24:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:24:28] Speaker A: I know. My whole life, it. It. My family comes first and God first, family second, and. [02:24:35] Speaker B: And I honor people's choice. I really do like you. [02:24:38] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. I, you know, you do you, I do me, and there could be a difference. And we can still be friends. [02:24:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:24:47] Speaker A: We could still be family. We could. [02:24:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:24:51] Speaker A: Still have a difference. And still have a community. [02:24:56] Speaker B: Yeah. And let's talk about evidence. Let's talk about what we're seeing. [02:25:00] Speaker A: Yeah. Know. [02:25:01] Speaker B: Hey, this is what's working for me. Is that just because that doesn't fit a narrative, does that not mean it's valued? You know, that hypothesis, that scientific method. I mean, that's what we're supposed to do. [02:25:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Maybe you have something else that, you know, information that I could use and I could share my information and think of what the world would be impacted by. A sharing of knowledge and. And information. [02:25:28] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And facts. Right. And have different predispositions, genetic predispositions. I do believe that. [02:25:37] Speaker A: Right. [02:25:37] Speaker B: And that's why not everybody has the same things. I mean, doctors know, like sometimes you prescribed a certain medicine to somebody, and sometimes you gotta change the medicine. I mean, you know, because it doesn't work the same. We're not cookie cutters. [02:25:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:25:53] Speaker B: So. Wow. Emily. What? I really appreciate you telling your story. Is there anything else that you'd want. Want to share with the community that maybe you haven't. Is there anything else that you want to make sure you get across? [02:26:06] Speaker A: Basically just at question, ask questions and, you know, get involved. I am there. There is a show that the kids used to watch before it kind of took a negative turn into woke land. It was called Peppa's Pig, or Peppa. I think it's Peppa's something. Peppa the Pig, I think that's what it's called. And there's a character on that show called Mrs. Rabbit. And Mrs. Rabbit had many hats. She was a librarian. She drove the train. You know, she opened the ice cream parlor or, you know, whatever. The librarian, like, she, you know, did all these things. And so My husband calls me Mrs. Rabbit because I'm involved in all these things and with my community, with our faith community, with the community that we live in, you know, get to know your local politicians, get to know your school board members. You know, I recently became a PCO for our district, and just so I could get involved and ask questions and get to know people that are making rules and regulations to where we live. And, yeah, we don't all agree on stuff, but we can have a community and talk things over and, you know, it's just all about. I'm such a huge person of networking and community and connections and. Because you never know when you could meet someone at some random event or a meeting and they're, you know, husband's looking for a job, and you're like, oh, but I know this one who's hiring. And bless a family with that connection. Just to get to know somebody or. [02:28:02] Speaker B: Have, you know, different knowledge or just like, yeah, your knowledge that you've gained and the experience that you could share about what worked for him. You don't know how that's going to be blessed. We are meant to be in community. I think that was something else that Covid really took away, and it was so sad. And we need. [02:28:20] Speaker A: And there are lots of groups of people that are excellent at community, like Amish and, you know, the Mormons and there. There's just lots of different groups of people that are really good. They. They get the community thing, and I think we're lacking in that, and we can. We can build that and learn from that. [02:28:44] Speaker B: Well, and I'm definitely interested in that, and I know you are, and hopefully we can continue, like, if this can help that. Yeah, I'm all about that as well. And I applaud you for becoming a pco. Thank you for bringing that up, because I. A lot of people know I. I'm a PCO as well. Well, and I was chair of the party of the Spokane County Republican Party. So you're a new PCO of the Spokane County Republican Party. And I love that you're getting involved, too, because these policies that impact our lives are made by elected people at some level, nor not 100%. There is the administrative, bureaucratic, whatever you want to call it, that's going on, too. But ultimately it is our elected officials that, you know, have oversight or. Or are, you know, have some kind of control over this. So, you know, whether it's your school boards and whether you're homeschooling or not, you still should be involved in your local School boards, because. [02:29:43] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, okay. [02:29:46] Speaker B: We need to make sure everybody's children. [02:29:48] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, they. I care about. Just because I homeschool doesn't mean that I don't care about the kids in public school or in a charter school or in a, you know, private school or anything like that. We're. We're all community. And, you know, in our community here, we're outside of Cheney. And so we can vote for school board, but we can't vote for our mayor. We couldn't vote for the city pool. We couldn't vote for the city council members for the districting and because of. [02:30:21] Speaker B: Where they drew those lines. [02:30:22] Speaker A: Yeah, they drew those lines. And I'm like, let's knock down that wall. I haven't figured out what. What to do to get some redistricting, if that's the right word. I barely looked into it, but. [02:30:38] Speaker B: Well, you'd have to go back and look at, like, the corporation of the city, because that's usually when the lines are drawn. Although they can change, in fact. I know. Yeah. [02:30:49] Speaker A: Didn't Zapone. Didn't he do some redistricting? [02:30:54] Speaker B: But that was within the city limit. That was the different districts, the different council districts. But you're talking about a city limit, so I don't know. That might have been done. [02:31:06] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it's a county thing. [02:31:08] Speaker B: Could be. County thing. Could have been when it was incorporated. I'd look back to see if it's changed since the city of Cheney has been incorporated, because they usually draw those lines, but, you know, maybe they've changed. I don't know. That's a good question. So, yeah, we had a nice comment here. Yes, we should all be able to have a conversation whether we agree or disagree. Nice job, Emily. That was from Janet. Janet, thanks for engaging with us, Emily. Just. I applaud you so much. Thank you for being courageous in your walk and in your faith and in your conviction, for your. For obviously, not just you, but your whole family. Thank you for standing up in the midst of great adversity and not losing your head. You know, I. I've been around you enough to know that you. You did stay amicable, and especially under, you know, these extreme cases when people are questioning what you're doing with your child. That's very, very hard. And so I. But I know you to be that way. That doesn't surprise me at all, you know, so just blessings to you and your family. And really thank you for being courageous to come on here and share your story and tell people, you know, what you've gone through and what you've learned and you know, what happened to you and your family and that it is horrific, but we've got to continue to expose it. So, you know, this is an open call. If you, if you, if people out there have another situation like this that's similar, please contact me, get a hold of me and let me know and let's get you on here, because this is not right. This is, this is wrong. Government should not be interfering with situations like this. This is, I mean, it's just appalling. And, and even the medical system, I mean, this is a call out to. If you're a medical professional, we have got to do better. We. You, we have got to be more humane. You can't expect a two year old to be able to sit in a room for five hours and not go berserk. I mean, you know, to put a family through that, it's just there's so many things that are wrong with this. You know, asking the medical professionals to listen to, listen to people. To listen to what, you know, what people's questions are, what is working, what isn't working. Maybe D. Here you have a case where diet mattered. What you did with the gut mattered it. And it completely reversed your son's symptoms. I mean, that ultimately should be the goal. [02:33:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [02:33:55] Speaker B: Right? [02:33:56] Speaker A: 100%. [02:33:57] Speaker B: Yeah. Any final thoughts? [02:33:59] Speaker A: Opportunity. I, I really appreciate it. I'm. I can't believe we talked for two and a half hours. That's wild. [02:34:07] Speaker B: Well, we'll have to have you on again down the road and see how things are going or maybe an update with your farm and, and hear a little bit more. I know I've been dabbling in the sourdough. I love it. You know, three ingredients and you know what they are. And I've even, you know, been experimenting with different flour to make sure that no roundup has been used. [02:34:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Milling your flour. Yeah, yeah. [02:34:34] Speaker B: Glass fate. [02:34:35] Speaker A: I use flour. [02:34:36] Speaker B: Yeah. And then I started making, milling my own flour and making a brown bread, you know, so it's got all that goodness in it too. And you know, I'm, I'm dabbling in all that and I love it. [02:34:48] Speaker A: And it's gardening. Breaking bread. [02:34:52] Speaker B: Yep, yep. And it, it seems like the most wholesome stuff and I couldn't understand why, why bread was causing so many problems. My dad was a wheat farmer and I confirmed it. They're, they're spraying Roundup on that stuff right before they harvest it. [02:35:07] Speaker A: Why is there 16 ingredients in a loaf of bread from the grocery store. Store. [02:35:13] Speaker B: Yep. When it. When we can make it with three. [02:35:15] Speaker A: Yep. [02:35:17] Speaker B: Start making it, right. [02:35:18] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [02:35:20] Speaker B: Blessing to you and your family, and thank you again, and God bless you. [02:35:25] Speaker A: Thank you. God bless you, too. Take care. [02:35:27] Speaker B: Okay, bye, everyone.